Pension Application for John Carter
State of New York
On this 15 day of August A.D. 1835, personally appeared before me David Spraker, Esq. one of the Judges of the Court of Common Pleas in and for the County, John Carter (1) a resident of the County of Cayuga now is in the said County of Montgomery aged about sixty nine or seventy years who being first duly sworn according to law, does on his oath make the following declaration in order to obtain the benefit of the Act of Congress passed June 7th 1832 under the following circumstances viz:
That he was not that he knows of enrolled in any company in the War of the Revolution, that he was too young(2) to belong to ? arms that he was very active for his age & often was ordered by those commanding the fort & as often volunteered to serve in said fort & other times in standing guard &c & in carrying provisions for the troops when in pursuit of the enemy or his ? service.
That he resided in the neighborhood of the fort & was often in it--had a gun and ammunition in the forts hereafter mentioned for his use, given to him as he voluntarily agreed to serve when wanted & often used same in guarding the fort & went with others who were troops in the fort, voluntarily on scouting parties repeatedly &, and always kept his gun in order & loaded--that he was there day and night previous to his being taken a prisoner, engaged in the fort & had volunteered his services in assisting to guard the Fort as party of hostile Indians was apprehended.
That Capt. John Keyser (3) generally commanded at the said fort the applicants father was a lieut. (4) in same company of militia commanded by Capt Keysor in Col. Jacob Klock’s Regt--& with the men belonging to said company he often volunteered on scouting parties & serving & in guarding the fort. That on the morning of the 3d day of March 1780, (4) (He thinks) a Capt. Gordon (6) of the Rangers was & commanded at the said fort called Fort Remensnyder. (7)
That in the morning of said day it was proposed by the officers & others in the fort that this deponent’s father & others should go to a grist mill about a mile from said fort to do some grinding for the use of the fort. Scouts were sent in various directions from said fort of which Jacob Youger (Youker) (8) whose affdt is hereto annexed was was engaged as informed by him.
He this applicant volunteered his services to go with the party to the grist mill. He was accepted, got his gun &c & when Capt. Gordon (he thinks) said that his guns & arms must be left in the fort. That they then used & did take horses and sleighs to said fort at Remensnyder. That he this deponent, his father & Bartel Pickert (9) & Jacobus Van Slyke proceeded to the mill intending to do some grinding and taking the flour to the fort.
When they arrived at the mill his father & a constant guard was kept near the mill. He this deponent was standing on the top of the hill near the mill, looking out. That he had a large dog with him who began to growl, this deponent looked in the direction & saw he Indians & Tories coming out of the woods near him, towards him, & he fled into the mill hall owing as he went but the noise in the mill prevented those engaged in it from hearing him until he got to the mill & the Indians and Tories rushed into the mill nearly as soon as he did & took all prisoners. The Indians were about 100 strong, a party of which took him, his father, Pickert & Van Slyck (who are dead). Than set fire to the mill & took hin and those in the mill along with them & in the evening of the said day he was taken (it was as near as the can recollect on 3d March 1780) as the parties of Indians came together & encamped; he saw Jacob Youger whose affdt is hereto annexed a prisoner together.
With other prisoners they were taken to Buck’s Island--from Buck Island he & Jacob Youger (9) were taken to Montreal by the Indians & there sold as he supposes, leaving his father & the said prisoners at Buck’s Island. It was he thinks about two months after he was taken he was so sold. He was sold to Col. Campbell,(10) of the British service but previously for a few days the Indians had taken him from Montreal & then returned & sold him as aforesaid. It was in May (he thinks) 1780 that he was so sold, he continued with The Col. Campbell serving in his family as a servant until he & John J. Failing (11) whose affdt is also hereto annexed were permitted to go home & that he & said Failing proceeded home as stated in his affidavit. Col. Campbell told him that he must stay with him & be faithful or else he would have to enlist in the British service or be sent to jail.
Before sold to him he was in prison or jail & Col. Campbell came to him & said he could not get out without agreeing to live with at home with him or to enlist in the British Service, he was determined not to enlist & went with Col. Campbell, messers Pickart & Van Slyck again returned home after the war & his father was flogged with two others for being engaged in an attempt to blow up the magazine of some place not recollected for which he was flogged & died thereof. He saw his father after he was flogged by the British & Col. Campbell gave him some money & a horse to go and see his father before but after he got there his father was brought out to be flogged. He turned away & could not bear to see it & his father’s flesh was flogged off his back & died of his wounds. As supposed & He suffered and never returned home--that he & John J. Failing after the war had terminated were permitted to go home & they said applicant & said Failing came home he should suppose about the 25 Nov. 1782 having been a prisoner from 3d March 1780 to at least 2 years & eight months. That Fort Remensnyder was situated in the then Town of Palatine in the now County of Herkimer.
That this applicant was always willing to serve in the war when his services were wanted & accepted. Shortly before the time he was taken a prisoner. The friendly Indians had reported that they believed a party of Indians & Tories were on their way & in consequence the fort was strengthened with troops & this deponent being of sufficient ability engaged with them in guarding the fort & to repel any attack, if it should be made on said fort until he went out to the said mill as aforesaid which mill was about a mile from the fort. That about forty soldiers were in this fort about this time. Some of them however had been ordered elsewhere when wanted & some assisting as scouts & further says that he knows of no one living by whom he can prove the circumstances under which he was taken—that when in said Fort & also when taken as a prisoner—he resided in the then Town of Palatine in the then Co. of Tryon now County of Herkimer. That he knows ___ & has no documentery evidence & knows ___ of no other person whose testimony he can procure who can testify to the circumstance of his case other than Jacob Younger & John J. Failing whose affadavits are hereto annexed except that he is not acquainted with any clergyman in said County of Montgomery who can testify as to his age & his belief of the circumstances under which he was taken prisoner &c & the said applicant on having ____to him by me said Judge the interagatories presented [?] by the War Department____.
The Interrogatories follow.
& hererby relinquishes every claim to a pension except the present
and his name is not on the pension roll of the agency of any state & he
makes this declaration in Montgomery County as more [?] to him than
in Cayuga County.
(Signed) John Carter
Sworn this 15th day of Aug’t 1835 before me David Spraker Judge of Mont. County Court & Counsellor.
State of New York
I, John J. Failing of the Town of Oppenheim in said county being duly sworn says he is aged about sixty nine years according to the best of his information. Said by some that he is a year older & that he & this deponent was taken a prisoner in the year 1781 about the first of May according to the best of his recollection. That he this deponent was somewhat acquainted with John Carter mentioned now on a visit to said Town of Oppenheim in the War of the Revolution--that this deponent was taken in the then Town of Palatine by the Indians & taken to Ogdensburg--then to St. Regis--then to Buck’s Island & continued among the Indians.
From the time he was taken to the fall of the same year when he was sold by the Indians to Col. Campbell in the British service stationed in Montreal--that this deponent acted as a servant after so sold. That when this deponent was so sold as aforesaid he saw said John Carter a prisoner in Montreal acting as a servant in the family of Col. Campbell, that he saw said Carter in Montreal for about thirteen months, that said Carter did not enlist in the British service that he this deponent heard or knows of.
That at the end of the war he & said Carter were sent home from Montreal with many other prisoners--that said deponent & said Carter proceeded together from Montreal to St. Johns--thence across Lake Champlain to East Bay & thence he & said Carter traveled together home. That they arrived home about the last of November or first of December 1782. That said deponent recollects of having heard that said John Carter with others was taken a prisoner by the Indians at the time or shortly after said Carter was so taken.
That this deponent always supposed the said Carter was older then he or at least of the same age n& that said Carter was very active & smart for his age.
(Signed) John J. Failing.
Sworn & subscribed this 14th day of August AD 1835 before me Ashbel Loomis, Justice of the Peace.
State of New York
Jacob Youker of the Town of Oppenheim in said county, having duly sworn, says that he is aged about seventy-eight years--that he was in the War of the Revolution taken a prisoner by a party of Indians & Tories as near as he can recollect about the first of March 1780--that he is & was in the said War acquainted with John Carter now on a visit to said Town of Oppenheim, but says he is a resident in the County of Cayuga in said state, that the said John Carter was also taken a prisoner by some of said party of Indians & Tories that took this deponent & on the same day--that this deponent was taken in the morning & said John Carter was brought in a prisoner in the evening of the same day--that said deponent & said Carter were taken as aforesaid in the then Town of Palatine that about twenty one others were at same time also taken prisoners by said Indians &Tories--that this deponent & said Carter & the other prisoners excepting one who made his escape were taken by the Indians to what was called “Buck’s Island”--that they traveled three days without any thing to eat--from Buck’s Island this deponent & said Carter were taken together to Montreal--that at said latter place they were separated by the Indians, the said deponent to going with one party & said Carter with another party of said Indians & after which he this deponent did not again see said Carter while a prisoner--that when this deponent was taken he was engaged as a private in the militia on a scouting party--that a party of the militia were at same time stationed at a fort called Fort Remensnyder to which party this deponent belonged when sent out as such scout but was taken before the scout returned to said fort so called. That the said John Carter when taken a prisoner was about 14 years of age he should judge, ? very active & smart for his age.
(Signed with his mark) Jacob Youker
He____ “about” written on
Erasure & word “____” man
Sworn & subscribed to this 14th day of August A.D. before me. Ashbel Loomis, Justice of the Peace
John Carter—End Notes R 1750
Sandy Burke adds the following: End note #9 for the Pension Papers of John Carter say "Daniel Lobdell (Labdon, Lapton, Lamham) with his sons Daniel Jr. James and Jostph,"
I am interested to know where the name "James" came from. Daniel didn't have any sons named James.
Since we know from my Joseph Lobdell pension papers that Zadock was a prisoner too, then I believe the name "James" should be "Zadock".
Daniel and Elizabeth Lockwood Lobdell had issue:
1 Daniel Lobdell, bapt. Aug. 25, 1765, Married (no record of)
2 Joseph L. Lobdell, bapt. Aug. 31, 1766, Married Dorcas Holcomb
3 Zadock Lobdell, bapt. About 1767, Married Margaret Castler
4 Isaac Lobdell, (no records)
5 A daughter Lobdell, Married Mr. Lounsberry
6 A daughter Lobdell, Married Mr. Rundell
7 Samuel Lobdell, born about 1776, Married Lois Greenfield
From Frontiersmen of New York by
Jeptha Simms Volume II. The
Invasion of Snyder's Bush.-On the third of April, 1778, and about
two weeks after the sacking of Fairfield, another party of the enemy,
50 strong, consisting of Indians and tories-the latter outnumbering their
allies, whose dress and character they emulated, led by Capt. Crawford,
a royalist, visited Snyder's Bush and its neighborhood. Among the tory
visitors were Suffrenes Casselman, one Countryman and several Bowens,
who had gone from the Lower Mohawk settlements. Not long before this
invasion, Frederick Windecker had removed to the vicinity of Fort Plain
; and James Van Slyck, who had married Gertrude, a daughter of Windecker
was then living on the homestead.* As I have stated, the residence of
Ft. Windecker was fortified at Mindenville. At the grist-mill, the enemy
captured its proprietor, John Garter, and his son John, a lad entering
his teens ; and Joseph Newman and Bartholomew Pickert, who chanced to
be at the mill. The destructives arrived at the Windecker place as the
family were at dinner, who were excused from finishing it. The family
were threshing wheat, and John House, who was related to Van Slyck, had
gone up from the north side of the Mohawk to assist him, taking with
him a man named Forbush. Van Slyck was that day sick in bed, and what
was unusual on similar occasions, he was suffered to remain there with
his scalp on. The enemy captured at Windecker's, John House, Forbush,
my informant, John Windecker, then in his 13th year, and Garret, a brother
of James Van Slyck, about the same age as young Windecker. They also
captured in and contiguous to this settlement, John Cypher, Mr. Helmer,
Jacob Uher, and George Attle. The two latter, on a scout from Fort Snyder,
were captured in the woods.
In the Salisbury settlement, Mr. Lapham and his sons, Joseph and Sidney, and a son of William Williams were added to the prisoners. Mr. W. Williams, after his capture-owing to his age and infirmities, was permitted to return home. A Mr. Johnson, who lived a mile or two from Williams-although a patriot, was not disturbed, as he was off from their departing
* John F. Windecker, a grandson of Frederick, resided on this place in 1852.
route, which led up the old Jerseyfield road. No citizens were killed at this time. Dwellings were plundered, but no buildings were burned except Garter's mill, which was destroyed. The dwellings of the captors were subsequently burned by the enemy. Crawford's party-as did the invaders of Fairfield-journeyed through the forest by the northerly route on snow-shoes, and imitating their example, they halted, when out of danger of pursuit, and made snow-shoes for the prisoners; as the snow was yet deep in the wilderness. For the boys, they made small shoes, but Sidney Lapham was too young to walk in them, and his father was obliged to carry him on his back a great part of the way.
As the Indians approached the Windecker dwelling, John attempted to escape by flight, but was discovered and overtaken by a Massassauga Indian, of which tribe there were three in the party. The Indian proved very kind to his captive, carrying him on his back across rapid streams and dangerous places. On their way to Canada, the party was straitened for food, eating whatever they could find. Mr. Windecker remarked, that an Indian would eat about everything except a crow, which, he said, they would hardly eat to keep from starving. The enemy passed Mount's clearing on their route at which they halted, and knowing that he had potatoes planted the summer before which had not been dug in the fall, they replenished their larder by obtaining quite a quantity, by digging through the snow. The buildings had been burned before the visit of this party. When scanted for food on their journey, the Indians taught the prisoners how to bear with hunger, or as Mr. Windecker expressed it, " how to starve ;" which was to fasten a belt firmly around the belly, tightening it as the chest grew empty.
The prisoners were taken directly to Buck's Island, nine miles below Lake Ontario, and some 10 days after, young Windecker was removed from thence to the hut of his Indian captor, and saw no more of his fellow captives until his return to New York. In this Indian family-where young Windecker remained for months-he was treated more kindly than by some Canadians to whose mercy he afterwards fell. Having been a prisoner for several years, to better his condition, he was induced by the liberal bounty of a pair of sleeve buttons, to enlist to perform certain kinds of military duty at Buck's Island --and on two occasions he was on guard.
of Jacob Stauring and his Children.—The Massassauga Indian
who captured young Windecker, joined another expedition in 1778, only
a few days after the latter was initiated into his family, where
he had to adopt the Indian custom, its destination being to the Herkimer
settlements. I do not know the strength of this party or the scenes it
enacted, except in the capture of a family of Staurings on the farm for
many years known as Judge Jacob Marcle's place, in Snell's Bush. Some
time in the month of May, Jacob Stauring, with his sons Jacob and George,
and daughter Lana (Magdalena), were engaged in planting corn, when
they were surprised by the enemy and taken to Canada. We suppose the
house to have been pillaged, but what else the party accomplished
I am not informed. One of the captors was the Massassauga previously
mentioned, who claimed for his undivisible interest in the captives,
the person of Miss Lana, a beautiful girl of charming proportions, then
about 16 years of age.
In due time, the party reached Canada, and Stauring and his sons were surrendered for the accustomed reward to the authorities on Buck's Island. Not so with the bewitching Lana. She was taken to the home of her captor, where she was required to don Indian attire and become his wife. My informant, Windecker, was still in the family. Whether the unwonted charms of the maiden had disturbed the warrior's mind, or whether by his kind treatment while threading the forest he had won upon her esteem, so that affection had anything to do with the match we cannot say. But certain it is, she neither pined away or committed suicide. After she had been a month or more domesticated in her novel relationship, her detention among the Indians became known, and she was required at Montreal; and to remove her more effectually from the Indians, she was taken off among Canadians, where she soon after married, as her friends in captivity learned, and ever after remained in Canada. Her father and brothers lived to return to the Mohawk valley.
Many are the offences for which John Smith is indictable; among them is that of one John Smith for inducing certain prisoners at Montreal to enlist into the British service. Several of them enlisted, as is believed, to enhance their prospect for their escape. Of this number was John Garter, the Snyders Bush miller; Suffrenes Dygert, and one Hapley, of the Herkimer settlements ; the two latter from the south side of the river near Little Falls. In attempting a midnight escape, the fugitives were discovered by the water-guard not far from the fort, brought back and flogged as deserters. Garter, whose punishment was the most severe, received a thousand stripes save one. He was literally flayed, but survived to be transported for life, never again to see his family.
In the summer of 1782, at which time hostilities had nearly ceased, a party of American prisoners at Rebel Island resolved clandestinely to leave Canada. Their names were John Lour, Andrew Fine, an elderly man named Evertson, Dennis McGraw, one Poousock, and a German whose name is now forgotten. Initiated into their secret intent, Windecker determined to join them. With what preparations they could make by husbanding rations, etc., they crossed the river in the night in a canoe and trusted to fortune. Me Graw was the only one who could secure a gun and a few charges of ammunition. With this he shot two young bears, which, with a few fish caught at different times, kept their larder from barrenness. At Kingston— Caturoqua there was an old French fort there—the party got canoes, in which, after six days' ride, they floated to some point on Salmon creek, from whence they footed it home, arriving in the Mohawk valley, after a journey of 14 days. Windecker had been gone about four years and three months.